Hi all,
I have a black MM 110-RD Fifty I bought in about 1981. It's the best amp I've ever had, and is the nerve center of my setup.
I play the guitar, and regularly play jazz and rock gigs. The 110-RD has done it all perfectly for > 30 years.
Recently, the speaker developed some cracks in the paper, so I took it to a repair shop to be sent off and reconed. Through a series of screwups, these miserable jerks threw my speaker away!
So, I'm trying to find out exactly what speaker it had in it so I can get another just like it. The tone was perfect, and I need that
tone back again! As far as I know, it did not have the EVI-10 upgrade. But I can't consult the speaker for any codes or anything, since it got chucked!
It had a big metal horse-shoe shaped cover over the magnet, with a "Music Man" label covering the back surface. The basket for the cone had long elliptical openings in it, IIRC. I've seen comments that make me suspect it might have been an Eminence speaker, but I don't really know. I do know it's an 8-ohm speaker.
I've contacted MM, and they don't have any records that far back. The pre-Ernie Ball schematic PDF for my chassis (1650-RD) has two lines referencing the speaker in the parts/price list:
'Speaker 10" G/HD' followed by
'Speaker 10" Electro-Voice' (which again, I don't think I have).
The chassis is 1650-RD
The serial number is EN04202
Currently, I'm using the amp with an early 70's Acoustic 150 6x10 cabinet, which sounds great but weighs about 1000 pounds and is killing me!
Can anyone tell me the make and model of the original speaker? I'm at the end of my rope here, and I've got to have my amp back - nothing else will do!
Thanks in advance for any scraps of info you can give me.
- Rick
Hockey puck?
Hi Rick,
if your amp had the MM branded speaker with the hockey puck magnet, it was Eminence C10G/HD. They show up on eBay on a regular basis either as recone candidates or in working condition. The current Eminence called 'Copperhead' is very close in sound and appearance.
The older Eminence A10G/HD (same 2* voice coil but with AlNiCo magnet) also works great but may appear a tad less bright or a bit softer than the C10.
Do not use the low wattage F10G, it just won't cut the mustard.
Cheers,
Lars Verholt
Lars, thank you so much! I
Lars, thank you so much! I believe that's exactly what I needed to know. I want the exact speaker if possible, but if I can't get it I'll go for the Copperhead. Do you know if it will fit correctly in the cabinet without modification?
It's drop-in
Hi Rick,
the Copperhead will fit without any mods to the cabinet.
Sincerely,
Lars Verholt
Talked to Eminence
Hi again,
I just talked to a guy from Eminence. He had info on the Eminence C10G (without the HD). He says the Copperhead or the Legend 1058 would be the closest. Do you know anything about the Legend 1058? How it sounds in a MM amp? I'm ready to buy one or the other, whichever sounds closest to the original speaker.
Thanks again for all the help, I was completely lost until I landed here!
@ Guitars'R'us
@ Guitars'R'us
Keep in mind that the speaker you once had was broken in, for many, many years. Don't under estimate how much this effects the sound. You can't recapture that "exact" sound very easily.
When you get your new speaker - don't judge it immediately. Work with it for a while... it might take time to grow on you. Two things are happening here.
1: The speaker is breaking in, likely getting warmer with each use....
2: Your ears (and mind) are adjusting to the new sound.
New speakers need to be broken in... keep that in mind in order to give it a fair chance for the long haul.
Edit to Add: You also have many years experience in setting your amp a certain way. You may need to adjust your tones a little differently - don't be alarmed by this. Most likely you will find you have to turn your treble down a little...
Thanks
Good advice, thank you. I've only replaced a speaker once before; same amp, just a couple of months ago. I put in a Jensen Neo, and it's so awful sounding, I set out to replace it immediately. I even tried getting a used Marshall 4x12 cabinet to use; that sounded about as bad as the Neo.
Now I have a Copperhead on the way; if it sounds anywhere near like the original MM speaker, I'll be ecstatic, and adjusting my tone is no problem.
I'm very glad I found this site.
Back to the drawing board
I installed my Eminence Copperhead last night. This is nothing like the tone of my original. When I switch to the overdrive channel, I get a terrible buzzing tone on the bass strings. The clean channel is OK, but too bright. I don't like it.
I called Eminence, and they said well, the Copperhead probably wasn't a good choice, and the Ragin Cajun would handle the distorted lows much better. And BTW, once it's been mounted, it can't be returned.
I hate to do it, but I think I have to buy another speaker.
Anyone here have any experience with the Ragin Cajun?
Nothing special...
The musicman didn't have anything special in it... just a run-of-the-mill eminence. I think you are in love with the sound of a broken in (dare I say, worn out) speaker - not the brightness a new one brings to the table.
Since you can't return your new copperhead - I suggest you make the best of it. Hook the speaker up to a stereo and run music through it at various levels/volumes for a month. Then try it again in your amp. That new speaker needs to be broken in before you can judge it.
Just my 2 cents...
speaker
That is very good advice. It's already paid for and what have you got to loose. Speakers are REALLY bright when tight so head the word. My CV123's were a little crunchy when I got them but they have several months( Ok, a year and a half) of abuse and they are great. New speakers are like new strings. Too crunchy at the beginning, perfect in the middle and they suck when they are dead. Thank gawd the middle is a LOT longer for speakers than strings! I AM a little shocked that Eminence said maybe that wasn't a good choice. Honestly, most speakers pretty much sound the same to me unless it's a JBL compared to a Radio Shack. You get used to almost anything and in the words of a famous poet (ME), the geese can't tell the difference! Mike.
If I may...
offer some advice courtesy of my better half: This is the time to tell your wife that you don't care for the new model, instead you prefer the fullness and sweetness of the older model. You'll get enough brownie points out of that to be allowed to buy a reconed C10G off eBay.
Sincerely,
Lars Verholt
Copperhead
Well actually, the place I bought my Copperhead said I can return it for any reason within 45 days, and gave me a return authorization. Naturally, I won't use it again before sending it back. A Ragin Cajun is on the way.
But, when I bought it new circa 1981, the MM sounded wonderful right out of the gate. I understand the break-in part; but I'm not going to keep a speaker that sounds terrible in the hope that it'll sound better down the road. Maybe the geese won't know, but I will. I'm very picky about my sound (I've spent over 50 years developing it!)
One of the few differences in the specs between the Copperhead and Ragin Cajun is the RC has a 30oz magnet instead of 20; and the cone is continuous instead of seamed. The magnet size may be important: when I first replaced the original speaker, the tech who did it mentioned the weight difference, and said something about a 30-something oz magnet in the original. (He put in a Jensen Jet neodymium - a horrible speaker - then lost my original when I asked him to get it reconed! Grr!) There are a few other small differences in numbers that I don't understand, but I hope the cumulative effect is a better sound.
Lars, good advice, I'll be keeping an eye out for a C10G. (Unless the RC does the job!) All things come to he who waits. But, I don't need the brownie points, my wife understands these things and wants me to be happy with my sound.
BTW, I should explain: Eminence doesn't sell to the public. I got the speakers from a supplier recommended by Eminence. They are the ones who will take it back.
Thanks everyone for the advice and help. I'll let you know how the RC works out!
Since you are able to return
Since you are able to return it then it's a new ballgame. I was going on your comment that it couldn't be returned once it was installed. I've heard great things about the Ragin Cajun. It's suppose to be a very warm sounding speaker. Hopefully it works out for you.
Keep us posted. Its pretty obvious you are very picky about your speaker choice.... If you find one you like, I want to make note of it for future reference. I may need one at some point.
Sorry about that
I didn't word things very well, did I. Anyway, I'll let you know what happens. I am very picky about the sound; but I've never replaced a speaker before. This is a whole new experience for me. Hopefully I'll come out of it with a little better idea of what I like and why.
Ragin Cajun
I just replace my 10" Copperhead with the Ragin Cagun that arrived today. I think I've found my speaker. My initial tests (at low volume) give me tone on the clean and overdrive channels that is very close to my old speaker. A little more brittle, but only slightly, and I'm thinking that the break-in period will probably mellow that. It's nothing that a little EQ can't fix. But even straight in, the clean tone is beautiful, and the distorted is very smooth. I like it, and I think I'm going to keep this one. I don't really want to spend my whole life trying to get that last 5% just right - I can cope! :0)
Thanks to everyone for all the advice and feedback here during my ordeal. I've learned a whole lot here about speakers in the last few weeks. Thanks also to the techs at Parts Express for working with me and taking the time to talk the whole thing over with me at length. Their 45-day no-hassle return policy made it possible to find the right speaker without going broke!
... a week later
Just for anyone gathering speaker replacement info: The Ragin Cajun is *not* a great replacement for the original MM speaker in the 110RD-50. The clean channel sounds good, but you have to mix the bass way up and the treble way down. The speaker is far too bright. In the distortion channel, the sound is not very smooth, especially on the two low (bass) strings. It's very sloppy sounding, like a blown speaker maybe. I'm keeping the speaker, but the OD channel is unusable to me now, I have to use an external pedal. Someday I'll find the right speaker, but this isn't it.
I know I'm contradicting what I said before; but then, I was so relieved to get rid of the Copperhead, anything was an improvement. Now I've had time to work it a bit, and I find it lacking. I'm wondering if the original was an Eminence speaker at all. Wish I still had it!
Grill cloth Color???
Hi, I have a MM rd50 head and it is in mint shape, I have had it since 1984, I purchased used. My question is, it came with black grill cloth and I was wondering if MM had ever sold any of there amps with black cloth or is this a mod? And also if you know were to purchase MM grill cloth?
Thanks!