Name: Steve Kennedy
Email: steve@pacair.com
Subject: Music Man 410-65 Review
Thread: 10
Time: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:12:23 GMT
The Music Man 410-65 is similar to most other Music Man amps of the "sixty-five" series.... solid-state preamp, reverb, tremolo, Bright & Deep switches, selectable 4/8 ohm output with extension speaker jack and a tube output stage which delivers 65 watts RMS (easily loud enough for un-miked club or small venue use).
This model differs from the other combo amps in the line in that it is in a larger cabinet and weighs a bit more because it has 4 10" speakers.
These amps are pretty basic... no channel switching, no effects loops, (much like the classic Fenders), BUT no "decent" distortion to speak of... this solid-state preamp was designed for high headroom clean not overdrive! They do have a Master Gain control and two channels, but their distortion (preamp overdrive) is pretty lame and many people find it HIGHLY annoying to listen to for any length of time!
These amps were designed to play CLEAN and LOUD, and they do this very well! You need a pedal if you want usable "hot" overdrive or distortion tones. The overall clean tone (as well as the styling) is "Fender-esque".
I have two of these... the 1974 vintage has a 12AX7 phase-splitter tube driving a pair of 6CA7 (EL34 in a pinch) output tubes with rear panel Standby switch and front-panel HI-OFF-LO power switch.
The 1979-vintage unit has a solid-state transistor phase-splitter driving the same output tubes with a rear-panel ON/OFF switch and a front-panel HI-STANDBY-LO switch (I like this switch arrangement much better!).
The older one sounds a bit warmer and does output overload more gracefully but they otherwise sound pretty similar and can be dialed-in much the same.
As I stated before, these amps excell in dishing it out LOUD and CLEAN. If you have a good loud/clean amp to start with, you can go almost anywhere from there with add-on effects and pedals if necessary.
I use the MM 410-65 with a Fender Stratocaster (stock pickups with the addition of a Fender Red Lace Sensor in the bridge position) playing a wide variety of musical styles. A clean tone with "body" is an important starting point for me and these amps provide that in spades!
The Music Man amps are very quiet EXCEPT when using the Reverb/Tremelo channel with the Master volume control turned up past about 8. The Reverb and Tremelo circuits add more "hiss" to the output when the Master is ranked. However, you won't notice it much if you are playing.
These amps are great for the "Fender-Clean" sound by themselves. When used with a Tube Overdrive pedal or preamp (like the Tube Works units) a creamy-smooth tube overdrive sound can be fed to the amp which will dutifully amplify it without undue additional coloration! Driving 4 10" speakers, these amps can move alot of air and produce a lot of "punch" which adds immeasurably to the playing dynamics!
Under the right set of circumstances, it is possible (on the older tube phase-splitter models primarily)to run the input gain low and the Master volume control high to get output-stage distortions that can get downright "bluesy". However, this points out another "difference" between the older vintage and the newer:
On the older models, the "Hi-Lo" power settings changed a tap on the PRIMARY of the power transformer. In effect, they lowered the AC input voltage to the transformer (like inserting a Variac ahead of the amp and turning it down). This not only lowered the power output of the tube power stage, but it also reduced the headroom of the solid-state preamp (as well as modifying the overload charateristics somewhat)!
On the newer models this "Hi-Lo" power setting is in the secondary DC power supply and simply cuts the plate and Bias voltages to the power tubes in half. This method has no effect on the low-voltage DC supply that feeds all the solid-state circuitry, thus no change in preamp characteristics.
If you buy one of these amps expecting ANY decent inherent overdrive or distortion you WILL be disappointed. If you already use a favorite effect pedal or preamp to achieve these sounds, then this amp will amplify them greatly in a very satisfying and reliable fashion!
These amps were built like TANKS!
All plated steel chassis and hardware, solid Ponderosa-Pine cabinets with joint-lock corners, 5-ply marine plywood baffle-boards, corner protectors on all 8 corners, etc. I am sure that their "U.S. Overkill" style of construction is in large-part responsible for the large number of Music Man amps that are still around.... they are hard to hurt and even harder to kill!
They achieve extremely long tube life from their unique circuit topology.... the output tubes are run at a very high plate voltage (700 volts) but with a low fixed-bias current (10-15 mA) instead of the other way around. The cathodes are the driven element, not a grid like most other tube guitar amps.
One of my 410-65 amps came with Sylvania 6CA7 output tubes (originals they came with) that I have no doubt were the one's that came with it from the factory when it was new! My other 410-65 came with Amperex EL34 tubes in it... either of these are very difficult to locate nowdays and haven't been made for a very long time! Getting a DECADE (or two!) of usable service out of a set of output tubes is pretty phenomenal! The tubes typically run much cooler this way, so thermal stress is minimized and longevity is improved.
Some people (vintage purists mainly) claim that running the tubes in this fashion results in a "cold and lifeless" sounding amplifier. I don't find this to be totally true myself, and I am sure that a Marshall or Fender amp used at lower plate voltages and a similarly-low bias current would sound that way. These are run in a totally different manner so a direct comparison of this nature cannot truly be made (in my opinion).
I believe that another factor governing the increased life-span of the tubes relates to the fairly unusable front-end distortion.... since overdriving the preamp sounds so bad, hardly anyone does it, thus saving a fair amount of wear and tear to the output stage (fewer stressful square waves!).
I have owned 3 Music Man amps over the last 25 years and have never has a single failure I can remember! I travel with spare fuses, but no backup all the time! I am, however, not a full-time professional musician so I am not abusing them as much as others might...
However, Johnny Winter STILL tours and plays through a pair of Music Man 410-HD amps (the 130 watt version, identical except they added 2 more output tubes and beefed up the output transformer) even though the newest of these amps left the factory in 1985!
The "Achille's heel" of these lower powered models appears to be the barely adequate power rating of the stock ceramic speakers (25-30 watt Fane?) that they came with. Both of the MM 410-65 amps I bought had either blown speakers or open voice coils. I have heard of other people having similar problems with these models (using the factory speakers) but no problems using the high-powered units as they came with heavy-duty loudspeakers that apparently were a better match.
I restored one of my 410-65 amps to stock using all the good original speakers and replaced the 4 bad units with Fender Standard 75 watt 10" ceramic units (as used in
some of their current line of amplifiers... blue back Fender "Special Design" label). The amps sound surprisingly similar, even with the differences!
Music Man amps were built from 1974 to 1985. Ernie Ball bought the Music Man trademark and designs in 1985 and still manufacture this fine line of guitars under the name. They elected not to continue production of the Music Man "hybrid" amplifiers, have never been a source of service or parts for these, but they DO provide most of the schematics on-line in PDF (Adobe Acrobat Reader) format, even though some are very hard to read. (Thanks guys, nice touch!) There is a link to Ernie Ball's Music Man Amplifier Schematic Page on this site.
For all intents and purposes, there IS no factory support and there hasn't been for 15
years. However, the designs are fairly straight-forward and easily repaired by any tech worth his salt. Luckily, the "special" parts (like the transformers) were seriously "over-designed" are another reason the "bullet-proof" reputation for reliability these amps enjoy in most circles.
I have been playing guitar on and off for 30+ years and have owned and used many tube and solid state amps! It was my earliest experiences with amp failures that drove me to become an Electronics Engineer/Technician! I wanted to be able to fix them myself! My "modified" '65 Fender Bassman ate output tubes or plate resisitors every 6 months like clockwork, and most people who played during the late '60s and early '70s know all about solid-state "reliability" at that time!
I currently own:
Fender Concert II (project amp... experimented with more than played)
Fender Ultra-Chorus (the best, most luscious-sounding solid state amp I have ever
owned... but you have to crank it almost all the way up to keep up with a band)
Marshall JCM800 50 watt 2-12 combo (excells at "crunch", but it is spectacularly "tubby" when played clean!)
in addition to the 2 MM 410-65 amps. I have a good variety to choose from, but I tend to gravitate to the Music Man amps for much of what I do! 65 watts RMS sure sounds louder than 65 watts in solid state, and the Marshall (or the Fender Concert II for that matter) just don't sound near as good in the CLEAN department!
The 4 10-inch speakers DO make a difference as well! A big wavefront creates a playing dynamic that can add immeasurably to the "inspiration factor" an amp can provide! I love my Music Man amplifiers, and I have a lot of respect for those that designed and built-them... they are TOUGH, even if not everyone's sonic cup of tea!